#Pratchat93 Notes and Errata

These are the episode notes and errata for Pratchat episode 93, “We’re Not Here to Folk Spiders”, discussing Terry Pratchett’s 2008 collaboration with Dr Jacqueline Simpson, The Folklore of Discworld, with guest Roslyn Quin.

Iconographic Evidence

We’ll add those TikTok videos Ros mentioned here soon!

Notes and Errata

• The episode title is a riff on the Australian slang phrase “I’m not here to fuck spiders”, which we discuss in this episode. We previously talked about it way back in #Pratchat29, “Great Rimward Land”, about The Last Continent. For more on Ben’s investigation of its origins, see the notes and errata for that episode.
• Toastmasters is an international non-profit organisation, based in the US, which runs clubs teaching public speaking and other communications skills. It was formed in 1905 by Ralph C. Smedley, a YMCA educational director from Illinois. While it remains popular, it is fair to say its methods haven’t changed a great deal in 120 years, but if you want to get more confident with public speaking or interpersonal communication, you could do a lot worse than look up your local club.
• Jim Henson’s The Storyteller was a 1987 anthology series of nine stories told by an old Storyteller played by John Hurt, in heavy makeup to give him a “half-puppet” appearance (and to occasionally allow him to appear as his “younger self” in the stories). Each episode he sat by a fire and told his talking dog (a puppet performed by Brian Henson) a version of a classic folk story, shown to the audience by a full cast of humans and creatures, including demons, dragons and giants. A second, shorter series titled The Storyteller: Greek Myths featured Michael Gambon as a different storyteller, telling the same dog stories of heroes from Greek mythology. Both series were produced in the UK, and feature a guest cast of many great British actors who were (or would go on to become) very famous.
• “Davey and the Fish King”, Roslyn’s comfort story, is a variation on the “Fish returned to water: grateful” story type, number B375.1 in the Aarne–Thompson–Uther Index of folk stories. There are lots of versions of this, but the one Ros knows is a Scottish variation which also involves the Devil and a magical cow. Ask her to tell it to you if you get the chance!
• British storyteller Taffy Thomas is based in the Lake District, and is (as you might expect) a story of his own. He was awarded an MBE in 2001 for services to storytelling, and named the first Storytelling Laureate of England in 2009 for a period of two years, from 2010 to 2012. The role isn’t appointed by the monarch, but was created by a number of local and former national Poet Laureates. Other storytellers have claimed to hold the position too, but we were unable to confirm if it had indeed been passed on.
• Devil’s Cave is located near Heathcote, a small town in Central Victoria dating back to the gold rush era. The cave itself now appears to be behind a vineyard, but we don’t know if the wine is any good. As for the story behind the cave…you’ll have to ask Ros next time she’s telling stories.
• There are four Science of Discworld books, all collaborations between Terry Pratchett, Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen. We’ve done episodes about all four of them, though heads up that we liked the first one by far the best, and had a great dislike of the second and fourth ones. The episodes are:
  • The Science of Discworld – #Pratchat35, “Great Balls of Physics”, with guest Anna Ahveninen
  • The Science of Discworld II: The Globe – #Pratchat47, “A Finite Number of Shakespeares”, with guest Alanta Colley
  • The Science of Discworld III: Darwin’s Watch – #Pratchat59, “Charlie and the Whale Factory”, with guest Dr Kat Day
  • The Science of Discworld IV: Judgement Day – #Pratchat71, “It Belongs in a University”, with guests the Rev Dr Avril Hannah-Jones and Dr Charlotte Pezaro
• The mystery object mentioned by Liz is the “Roman dodecahedron”, an object cast in copper alloy in the shape of a dodecahedron (the same shape as twelve-sided dice). They have circular holes in the middle of each face, and spherical knobs on each corner. A hundred or so have been found since the eighteenth century, and they date back to the second to fourth century CE. The idea that they were used for knitting gloves has been popular, but has little basis in history – for one thing, the earliest known examples of knitting are from around the 11th century, the best part of a millennium later. Their true purpose remains a mystery.
• The clay tablet on display at the State Library of Victoria is from around 2,050 BCE (so around 4,000 years ago). It’s written in cuneiform script in the Sumerian language, and records taxes paid in sheep and goats. It’s older than the one Liz mentions, the famous “complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir”, which was one of many similar clay tablets discovered in 1953. The tablet was sent as a letter from the merchant Nanni complaining about sub-standard copper and the rude treatment of his servant during a business dealing with another merchant, Ea-nāṣir. The tablet became an internet meme in 2015, via a Reddit post drawing parallels with modern-day customer complaints.
• While the title of the show is Doctor Who, the main character is always known as simply “the Doctor”. Well…almost always. A computer intelligence in the 1960s once asked for him by name by stating “Doctor Who is required”, but in every other instance “Doctor Who” has been used in the show, it’s been a joke. In-universe, the Doctor has variously claimed that their real name is unpronounceable, that they’re an actual Doctor of one kind or another (or “everything”, “this and that”, but not usually a medical doctor), and eventually that they chose the name “as a promise”. They have also often used the alias “Dr John Smith”. Most Time Lords have individual names, and while they’re sometimes very long and grand, they’re generally pronounceable. But “renegades” who leave their home planet of Gallifrey have something of a tradition of adopting a title instead. Those seen in the show include the Master, the Rani, the Monk and the War Chief.
• Pratchett’s own feelings on Doctor Who are not recorded in print in many places, though as Ben says he is featured in the anthology Behind the Sofa: Celebrity Memories of Doctor Who, edited by Steve Berry. Pratchett didn’t write an essay, but the introduction: the book is a fundraiser for Alzheimer’s UK. Pratchett talks about having “been there at the beginning” and watching the original Doctor, William Hartnell, from the very first episode (screened twice because of “that pesky business with the grassy knoll”). He had stopped watching by the time Patrick Troughton came along, and tried it again in the 1980s with Rhianna, but it wasn’t really his speed. Of the revived series, he said he liked that we had a Doctor who could really act (a bit rude), but describes it as not really science fiction, since it’s full of “make-it-up-as-you-go-alongium” (what we now generally call “handwavium”). But, he notes, perhaps it was always that way. He acknowledges it’s service in introducing many to science fiction, but also makes a point of saying that he remembers the sci-fi you used to get before Doctor Who… While this might sound like a mixed reaction, Rachel from the Better Than a Poke in the Eye newsletter informs us that Terry was actually an avid fan, insisting he not have events scheduled when it was on, and having an episode projected on the big screen (a sheet) at one of the Discworld conventions so he could watch it live with the fans. See her comment below for more!
• Scheherazade is the main character of the framing narrative of One Thousand and One Nights, the English title for the famous collection of Middle Eastern folk tales compiled between the 8th and 11th centuries CE. In the story, she is the daughter of the Vizier of King Shahryār. The King had decided all women were eventually unfaithful, and so would only marry virgins; he would have them killed the day after their wedding night so they could not “dishonour him”. (Like many folk tales, it’s grisly stuff.) When the Vizier could find no more virgins for him to marry, Scheherazade volunteered as tribute, but on their wedding night told him a story…but not how it ended. The King was so intrigued by the story that he stayed her execution, and on she goes, each night finishing a story and beginning a new one to leave on a cliffhanger.
• We previously discussed Victorian-era and earlier authors who were paid by the word, line or instalment in #Pratchat65, “Let There Be Gaimans”.
• “The Backrooms” are an online “creepypasta” story, an imagined, unsettling, endless liminal space that exists outside of reality, mostly empty but occasionally inhabited by strange creatures. The idea originated in an anonymous post on the infamous forum site 4chan in 2019, inspired by a photograph of yellow featureless rooms (later revealed to be a store in Wisconsin during its renovation by a new tenant). The idea found further fame in 2022 with a web series about exploration of the Backrooms in the 1990s, created by teenager Kane Parsons, and reaching hundreds of millions of views. Parsons adapted this series into the 2026 feature film Backrooms starring Chiwetel Ejiofor, which is now a global hit.
• The Slender Man (or Slenderman) is another creepypasta Internet meme, created in 2009 by Eric Knudsen for a Photoshop contest on the Something Awful web forums. In the original, Knudsen added an impossibly tall, thin figure in a black suit to old photographs of groups of children running, and a brief caption indicating that the children disappeared from a library which was burned down. The Slender Man has many similarities to elves and faeries, with a shifting appearance, mysterious motivations, and the ability to steal away children without a trace. It has continued to be popular, inspiring films, videogames and other media, though unlike the Backrooms, no one depiction of the Slender Man has been popular enough to solidify him and bring him into the mainstream.
• Ben is right that Ros’ quote about stories telling children dragons can be killed is from G. K. Chesterton, though the more famous version is a pithy paraphrase by Neil Gaiman. We’ll stick with the original, which comes from Chesterton’s book of peronal writings, Tremendous Trifles:

Fairy tales, then, are not responsible for producing in children fear, or any of the shapes of fear; fairy tales do not give the child the idea of the evil or the ugly; that is in the child already, because it is in the world already. Fairy tales do not give the child his first idea of bogey. What fairy tales give the child is his first clear idea of the possible defeat of bogey. The baby has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon.

Chesterton G K (1909), Tremendous Trifles, Chapter XVII: The Red Angel, p. 102, Methuen & Co, London.

• We’ve mentioned H.P. Lovecraft (1890-1937) many times before, as the influence of his work is found in the Discworld – most obviously as the Things from the Dungeon Dimensions, Bel-Shahamroth, the creatures of Holy Wood, and the Necrotelicomnicon. He was in no uncertain terms a white supremacist, as well as elitist and classist, and it’s not hard to find clear evidence of these views in his writing. Cosmic horror is still a great genre, but if you’re reading the original stories, go in with your eyes open. (The last couple of longer stories, “At the Mountains of Madness” and “The Shadow Out of Time”, are Ben’s favourites, and contain less prejudice than many.)
• The Magnus Archives is a horror fiction podcast told in the audio equivalent of “found footage” horror films. (Ben has suggested names for this format, including “recovered recordings” or ” In each episode, a member of the Magnus Institute for paranormal research – often creator Jonathan Sims as “the Archivist” – will read or play a recording of a witness statement recounting some strange phenomena. Over time these build up a world and several stories, and other members of the Institute and various witnesses become major or supporting characters. The show ran for 200 main episodes over five seasons between 2016 and 2021, and has since spawned a sequel show (The Magnus Protocol, which began in 2024), merchandise, a tabletop roleplaying game and an upcoming board game. As Ros mentions, the vampires of the Magnus Archives universe are very different to the usual kind, or those from earlier folklore. They first appear in the first season episode MAG 10, “Vampire Killer“, from 14 April 2016.
• Comedian Steve Martin probably wasn’t the first person to appear on television with “an arrow through his head” during his appearances on Saturday Night Live in the 1970s. The whole reason it worked as part of his schtick was that it was a hackneyed “comedy prop” which pre-dated him. (Some sources credit 1940s American magician Dell O’Dell with creating the prop, though I’ve been unable to confirm if this is true. She’s very interesting though, you should look her up!) Martin reportedly told Playboy in a 1980 interview that the point wasn’t that the arrow was funny – it was that someone thought it was funny.
• The classic jester cap is also known as a “fool’s cap” or “cap ’n’ bell”, and seems to have been real. Some versions do seem to have resembled asses’ ears, but the cap is also said to be a mock crown, which along with a mock sceptre represented the “jester’s privilege”: their permission to speak truth to power through comedy. I’m still looking for some good historical sources for all of this, but images of this kind of jester costume are pretty old, dating back to at least the fourteenth or fifteenth century, when they were often depicted in illuminated manuscripts.
• Scottish actor, writer and folklorist Kenny Boyle can be found on TikTok, explaining a variety of Scottish folk tales and creatures. One relevant to our discussion is that he explains the pronunciations and meanings of all the Gaelic names of dragons from popular romantasy series Fourth Wing…
• The Moomintrolls or Moomins are the creations of Finnish author and illustrator Tove Jannson, published in a series of books beginning with Muumit ja suuri tuhotulva (The Moomins and the Great Flood), first written and published in Swedish as Småtrollen och den stora översvämningen in 1945. The books recount the adventures of Moomintroll, a young troll who lives with his Moominpapa and Moominmama, and who along with friends like Little My and Snuffkin, meets and has adventures with other supernatural creatures. The first couple of books were moderate successes, but the third, Taikurin hattu (“The Magician’s Hat”, Trollkarlens hatt in Swedish; translated into English as Finn Family Moomintroll and The Happy Moomins), was a worldwide hit, and the series continued for a total of nine novels and five picture books. The Moomins continue to be popular worldwide, and have appeared in comic strips and books, animated films and TV series, and videogames, and there are Moomin theme parks and cafes in Finland, Japan and other countries. Both Terry and Rhianna Pratchett are known Moomin fans.
• It appears that Australian ebook editions of The Folklore of Discworld are the ones with only updated covers. Ben has the Apple Books version, and has checked the Kindle version too; both have 2014 edition’s “Updated up to Raising Steam” cover, but still have the 2009 contents. You can easily check your own copy; if it has a chapter titled “Notes on the folklore of Unseen Academicals” at the end, it’s the 2009 version. Note that the 2014 version is the only one published in the US (with a different cover matching the US editions of the Science of Discworld books), so that seems to be correct. We would love to hear if ebook editions are current in the UK and other countries!
• Edward Scissorhands (1990) was Tim Burton’s fourth feature film. It tells the tale of Edward (Johnny Depp), an unaging artificial man with long blades instead of hands. As Liz says, he was created by an old inventor (Vincent Price) who died before finishing him. He’s found alone in the inventor’s mansion by Avon Lady Peg Boggs (Dianne West), who takes pity on him and brings him home to her painfully “normal” American town. Edward struggles to fit in, though he grows close to Peg’s daughter Kim (Winona Rider). The film was a commercial and critical success and remains a cult favourite.
• Lovecraft Country is a 2020 television series created by Misha Green, based on and serving as a sequel to Matt Ruff’s 2016 novel, also titled Lovecraft Country. Set in the 1950s, it follows young Black man Atticus “Tic” Freeman, a Korean war veteran, as he searches for his missing father in parts of America which served as inspiration for Lovecraft’s stories. It ran for one season of ten episodes and was a critical success, though not without some concerns over the way it used real-life historical events. The series was cancelled in 2021 before a planned second season, Lovecraft Country: Supremacy, could be produced.
• The Kraken Wakes is a 1953 science fiction novel by English writer John Wyndham, best known for Day of the Triffids. An important detail in the novel that Ben forgot is that the creatures are aliens – they land in Earth’s oceans, and are thought to come from a gas giant or other world with high pressure, so they can only live at great depths. When they destroy a human bathysphere sent to investigate them, the British government detonates a nuclear weapon at one of their undersea locations, kicking off a war which humanity – at odds from the Cold War – lose badly.
• Alexander Bunyip is a children’s character created by Michael Salmon for the 1972 picture book The Monster That Ate Canberra, which was popular enough for five follow ups. Alexander is a large pink creature resembling a cross between a dragon, Godzilla and a cow. In the original book he is huge, but he is best known from the television series Alexander Bunyip’s Billabong, where he was played at human size by Mike Meade. It should be noted that, aside from living in a Billabong, Alexander probably has little in common with most Bunyip stories, of which there are many among the indigenous peoples of southeastern Australia.
• A rip is a strong current found on beaches, which flows directly out to sea. Rips are very strong, but also very narrow, so if you’re ever caught in one, you should swim across it, parallel to the beach, rather than tiring yourself out trying to swim directly against it back towards the shore.

More notes coming soon!

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